lastremnantfandomcom-20200223-history
Talk:Weapon Strengthening and Weights
Weapon strengthening and High BR ---- Is it possible to keep strengthening weapons even at very high BRs (180)? If the experience gained towards weapon and shield +s depends only on chain count and BR difference, all that is needed should be a chain count over 370 and a high (very) BR enemy (say, oblivion wing). Mystic seal should make it possible, regardless of the growth rate. Am I correct?--Aymen623 (talk) 11:12, July 24, 2014 (UTC) : Yes, it's possible as long as the EXP multiplier hasn't fallen to 0%. The Mystic Seal can only do so much though. Even if the EXP hasn't hit 0/hit, you're still limited to 30 turns of normal attacks. IIRC, the threshold for that is about 64 BR above the enemy's level. Zephyr (talk) 17:49, July 24, 2014 (UTC) :: Thanks. I was wondering why Rush had +1 weapons while all other party members had at least +4 weapons and shields, then I remembered that the extensive weapon type training needed to get Rush to Legendary Ordainer usually keeps him from getting those +s. The purpose of the particular run I'm doing was to see how much damage Rush can deal using combat arts, and more specifically to see if he can deal more damage using Topspin than he deals using Hawkarang (on a consistent basis, meaning regardless of morale, buffs / debuffs, enemy resists...). So in order to do that, I got him to Legendary Ordainer, gave him two Shielding Hawkwinds and two Black Belts, and set the union formation to Trident III: Rush is now consistently dealing 150K+ with Topspin, but 240K+ with Hawkarang. And while I understand that getting weapon +s will benefit both weapon arts and combat arts, I still want to see the maximum damage output from Rush using combat arts. Is there any way to further enhance combat arts? What about using the Spike III formation for the Pierce +3 (+20%) bonus instead of Trident III for the Combat Arts +3 (+10%) bonus? (and since Topspin and Hawkwind both have pierce modifiers, wouldn't that be a better combination?) --Aymen623 (talk) 10:50, July 25, 2014 (UTC) ::: Enhancing the Pierce modifier isn't going to do very much, if anything at all. It does enhance damage under certain conditions, but they're kinda weird. And they're definitely a little bit broken when compared to the X360 version, where it actually worked when you hit an enemy weakness. If you're looking to boost CA damage, you're going to want to use the Might Splitters to squeeze a little more damage out of Rush. Despite the lower ATK stats, the Splitters are quite likely to outdo the Shielding Hawkwinds in damage. Double up on the effect, and it'll be a massive 30% boost and it will do better than the Shielding Hawkwinds. From a test from quite a while ago, I remember that you would need at least a 50 ATK lead on a weapon without the type* or Arts +5 effect to be considered equal while holding STR constant (and I think it was around STR86 since that was Rush's STR cap on the X360). Using Acala's Wrath could potentially do more damage than Topspin because it's a single-unit attack rather than an area attack. Haven't really looked into it. You can add up to an extra 28% damage when using unit attacks because of the extra physical hits. There's also another little detail to consider: is Rush using Hawkarang after switching from DW to OH, or is he using straight from OH? If he's switching, he'll be dealing a little extra damage because the damage modifier from the DW stance is applied to the WA. Zephyr (talk) 03:33, July 26, 2014 (UTC) :::: Indeed. I just noticed that the only time he changes the DW stance is when he uses Hawkarang. As for the Might Splitters: I thought about going that way when I started my current run, but ultimately went with the Shielding Hawkwinds. I'll definitely check them out in my next run! I've also been thinking about Acala's Wrath vs Topspin, and even more about the whole Dual Wielding thing: is there a consensus that Dual Wielding yields the most damage among all Wield Styles? I know that in my case, the two Black Belts equipped to Rush heavily favor Dual Wielding, but it becomes frustrating to see the Duke of Ghor with one Black Belt deal more damage than Rush, despite Rush being a Legendary Ordainer... And by the way, neither one of them needs a Black Belt to reach the 255 strength cap. I know that the Arts +5 effect isn't the number one benefit of Legendary Ordainer, but it's really the only reason why I went after Ordainer in the first place. Oh, speaking of extra physical hits, should I try the Physical Extra Hit +4 effect by switching one of the Black Belts (or both) for a Damascene Anklet? Is it as useful as it sounds? (Yes, I got bored of the two Black Belts, and in general, of anything that directly enhances Physical Damage!) Well, I guess killing Demigod in one turn is rewarding enough! Off to kill The True Conqueror - in one turn (kidding... is it even possible? if only he didn't use Fatal Eclipse immediately after reinforcing! Then it would be 10 Weapon Arts in his face, and *Khrynia's voice* "Oooh, that looked like it totally hurt!") --Aymen623 (talk) 15:58, July 26, 2014 (UTC) ::::: I don't know if anyone really bothered discussing it, but DW and QW are easily the most consistent when it comes to damage potential because of being able to double up on certain effects. And I'm quite aware of not needing the belts for hitting STR255. I've seen vids of someone taking down key DLC fights with units having 255 in most stats without the Black Belt equipped. Being an Axemaster or Gladiator would've been sufficient for damage boosting. I think once the unit is fast enough, they'll be adding enough hits consistently that you don't really need to use the Damascene Anklets to add hits. They're useful earlier in the game, but once unit stats get high enough, the usefulness diminishes quite rapidly. You could potentially kill the True Conqueror in 1 turn. You'd just need to hit at least 667K for 3 unions! I think it's possible, but the setup and crits required would be crazy. Zephyr (talk) 23:39, July 26, 2014 (UTC) :::::: I agree. I've just equipped Rush with two Damascene Anklets and set the union formation to Juggernaut III, which adds up to a Physical Extra Hit +11 bonus (if the effect stacks...), but actually Rush wasn't even dealing half the damage he usually deals with two Black Belts and the Trident III formation, and I didn't even notice any extra hits! I also tried using a couple of Might Splitters... they made those Shielding Hawkwinds look like early game weapons, and Rush was finally able to deal 300K+ damage (using Acala's Wrath, which actually concords with what was said earlier). Now about the True Conqueror: I managed to kill him in two turns (excluding Castanea and Roeas), and wasn't even close to killing him in one turn. Before I finished Roeas off, I made sure all my unions were warded (Orphic Ward), had very high AP and union morale, in order for them to be able to use Weapon Arts the very next turn. Once The Conqueror fired Fatal Eclipse off , none of my unions took a hit to their HP (obviously), but union morale of each union dropped to were it wasn't considered high anymore, and thus no Weapon Arts whatsoever. I think it's a bit unfair that many enemy attacks manage to lower union morale despite being dodged / resisted. Anyway, I think that since my extremely-Physical-Damage-oriented-current setup is still far from optimal, I will continue to try decreasing those 600K the Conqueror had left after one turn. I must get creative in order to increase the overall damage output, because classes / formations cannot be further optimized for Combat Arts, Arts / Weapons are already maxed out, and unit stats cannot go further (15 out of 18 units have over 230 of Strength, all 18 have over 75 of Speed)... any ideas? Anyway, congrats to anyone who was able to defeat The True Conqueror in one turn, you should get a medal! --Aymen623 (talk) 15:33, July 27, 2014 (UTC) ::::::: The effect stacks, but only to add up to 4 hits for the 28% (10/8/5/5). Any further stacking probably just increases the likelihood of adding the hits. The extreme damage training starts quite early. Someone uploaded a vid showing the training process, and it pretty much confirmed what I was thinking: keeping a revive union on standby while the other unions are in the Mystic Seal, bashing in the enemy with normal attacks and Rank C arts. It doesn't matter what rank the art is for stat growth, but Rank C arts don't hurt that much, which is why it's used. Then once the 30 turns are up, the revive union heads in to finish off the fight while the other unions hang back to keep that union alive. Having a unit with Commander also helps since the union will hang back until all other unions move in for a shot, getting to the flank and rear, and possibly using all their most powerful arts at once. Should be possible to hit the damage cap that way. Do that twice, and you have a winner. Maybe. Zephyr (talk) 03:06, July 28, 2014 (UTC) :::::::: I thought so. I don't do New Game+ runs, so everything is usually more difficult to achieve for me. The best I could do is to keep my BR to a minimum until I have access to the Ancient Ruins and all the leaders I need, which happened to be around BR12. Unlocked Mystic Seal, and did exactly as you described. I'm quite happy with the results final stats wise, but there still are some things that I will do the next time around, namely getting all my non-axe-wielding Sovani to request Snievan's Belt (I know they won't clone it), change some leaders whose final weapons have a technique modifier for some other leaders whose final weapons have a power modifier, and craft accessories for each leader specifically (nobody really needs a Black Belt, the Dual Wielding bonus is useless for anybody not named Emmy, and most leaders will hit the Strength cap regardless), so that each leader will have an accessory with a bonus to his Wield Style / Weapon Type (I'll have to make sure nobody clones Rush's Black Belts, either by keeping the BR under 120, or crafting them at the very last moment). I know this isn't as extreme, but it will help me achieve a higher damage output, and I'll have to settle for whatever result comes out. Anyway, thanks for the help! --Aymen623 (talk) 07:00, July 28, 2014 (UTC)